COMMENT ⊗   VALID 00013 PAGES
C REC  PAGE   DESCRIPTION
C00001 00001
C00003 00002	Mail-from: ARPANET site USC-ISIB rcvd at 14-Oct-80 1324-PDT
C00016 00003	∂Mailed to SKLEIN at USC-ISIB  18:13 9-March
C00018 00004	∂30-Mar-81  1831	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	..oops..   
C00020 00005	∂06-Apr-81  1612	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Yak, Yak, Yak    
C00027 00006	∂21-Apr-81  1732	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Sunshine and Light   
C00032 00007	∂22-Apr-81  1701	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Thunderclods and Darkness       
C00039 00008	∂24-Apr-81  2329	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Idea:       
C00043 00009	∂29-Apr-81  1042	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	for to collect facts...   
C00046 00010	∂29-Apr-81  2241	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: ...stcaf tcelloc ot rof    
C00048 00011	∂30-Apr-81  1734	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	what za chanze? 
C00049 00012	∂12-May-81  1556	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	regrets or whatever  
C00052 00013	∂01-May-81  1745	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	A Test of Wizardry   
C00065 ENDMK
C⊗;
Mail-from: ARPANET site USC-ISIB rcvd at 14-Oct-80 1324-PDT
Date: 14 Oct 1980 1323-PDT
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: Re: minor details...
To: CSD.GREINER at SU-SCORE
In-Reply-To: Your message of 13-Oct-80 1717-PDT

Hmm...replies 12 levels deep seem to lose the flavor of their contents.  wrt
manual 1 vs manual 2, we would like to attempt "hands-on" type experience--
have you set up some mechanism for this?  That is, distribution of the system
or use there or ?? (is this info included in your documentation?).  If not too
late, I'd like to request two sets of the manuals--I'm trying to shove things 
at several people...
Steve.
-------
Date: 14 Oct 1980 1547-PDT
From: CSD.GREINER
Subject: Re: minor details...
To: SKLEIN at USC-ISIB
cc: csd.greiner
In-Reply-To: Your message of 14-Oct-80 1323-PDT

RLL-1 is fairly close to being distributable.  I've not released it yet as it
is still strewn with bugs and inconsistencies.  There is also some legal hassles
to be resolved - forms to sign and the like.
In the long term, the MRS system, by Genesereth & Smith, will be the official
bona fide Representation Language Language -- Mike claims it will be available,
sans bells and whistles (i.e. lacking any useful facility) some time in the next
few weeks. RLL-1 will thenafter be encoded in this system, for compatability
and transportability.
	I'll try to get you two sets of the manuals. Ask again if you don't
get both sets.
	God bless, and too-da-loo,
Russ
-------
Mail-from: ARPANET site USC-ISIB rcvd at 22-Oct-80 1509-PDT
Date: 22 Oct 1980 1509-PDT
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: I see a ship on the horizon...
To: CSD⊗.Greiner at SU-SCORE

Hi.  Do you know which address got used for mailing the memos out?  Nothing
seems to have shown up here yet.
Steve.
-------
Date: 23 Oct 1980 2030-PDT
From: CSD.GREINER
Subject: Re: I see a ship on the horizon...
To: SKLEIN at USC-ISIB, CSD⊗.Greiner
In-Reply-To: Your message of 22-Oct-80 1509-PDT

Turns out only 25 memos have been sent out so far.  The rest (including,
apparently yours) will be sent soon (after the next batch come back from the
printer...)
	Russ
-------
Mail-from: ARPANET site USC-ISIB rcvd at 28-Oct-80 1307-PST
Date: 28 Oct 1980 1407-PST
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: paper snow
To: CSD⊗.Greiner at SU-SCORE

Hi.  Sorry for the bother, but the RLL-1 paper arrived yesterday, without
the "Details..." paper.  Could this be due to paper snarl/printing details,
or am I being over-anxious?
wit regardlets,
Steve.
-------
Mailed to SKLEIN@USC-ISIB 14:05 3-Nov
Tap tap tap <yawn> tap tap tap ...
Steve - have they arrived yet?  (By now they REALLY should have...)
Also, if its not too much bother, please send comments to RDG@SAIL.
Anything interesting happening there?
	Russ
∂04-Nov-80  1324	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Tap tap tap <yawn> tap tap tap ...   
Date:  4 Nov 1980 1320-PST
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: Re: Tap tap tap <yawn> tap tap tap ...
To: RDG at SU-AI
In-Reply-To: Your message of 3-Nov-80 1406-PST

greetzings.  I haven't seen the innards paper yet...murphy's  law or the US 
mail has achieved self-awareness and is practicing selectivity.  Everything
here is mostly mundane...I wonder what the secret is to getting more done in
less time  (if you find out, maybe we could bottle it).  If Reagan wins I might
move to New Zealand--have you considered what you will do?
A foobar cocktail in your general direction.
Steve.
-------

∂07-Nov-80  2114	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	pretty pictures 
Date:  7 Nov 1980 2114-PST
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: pretty pictures
To: RDG at SU-AI

Howdy...just a quick note:  I got the memos yesterday. Thankks.
Onwards.
Steve.
-------

∂05-Nov-80  1051	PRESSBURGER at SCI-ICS   
Date: Wednesday, 5 November 1980  10:50-PST
From: PRESSBURGER at SCI-ICS
To: rdg at su-ai

Date: Tuesday, 4 November 1980  15:29-PST
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
To:   PRESSBURGER at SCI-ICS
Re:   delta

How does an elephant dance?  Music experiments from the point of an
expected sound or just manipulating the equipment...tape decks and loops
are notoriously limited in flexibility...the world needs some decent
computer based composition systems...sounds like a reasonable life/business/
phd thesis.  The notion of "knowing" what defines a proof, what a proof
entails, and the underlying knowledge that supports the notion of proof
seems one of the hairier issues I've seen in a while, although I seem to
recall that a major part of (some) philosophical garbage deals with this
in a very ad hoc manner...I haven't read any of Lenats new stuff, so can't
comment on its limitations.   Did you see any of the interviews with
"people on the street" last night?  Goddamn parrots...is everyone in the
world so stupid that they believe the stuff they see on TV?  If I hear one
more person say that "its time for a change" I'll amputate them at the knee.
I hope you kept your senses and didn't vote for Anderson.  The "video
revolution"  hopefully is the start of the downfall of our current way of
voting...when anyone can watch what goes on in congress there isn't as much
that you can get away with...not an exclusive club anymore.  Voting as
it now stands (pick one of 2/3/...) bears the same relation to expressing 
your opinion as X'ing a contract does to understanding it...ten years from
now we may see something different...unfortunately, the media stranglehold
may be even worse--the only bright spot is that current trends are away 
from centralized control.

There are some great cassette decks available for cheap now.  I bought my
parents a Technics one with solenoid controls, fluorescent peakreading meters,
less wow&flutter than my old Sony, metal tape capability, etc. for $260.
There are an amazing number of decks for $150-300 that are great (need to
use metal tape though to get around lower speed...not very cheap, although
compatible with reel-to-reel tape costs).  Sendust heads are reasonable, as
are ferrite...don't know that anyone has really pointed out real differences
in end recording quality...just have to stay away from normal permalloy heads.
45 minutes per side is still a problem, but I'd rather flip cassettes at that
rate than reels at ANY other rate.
Barry actually found that "treasure"--a copper plate under the Colorado St.
Bridge...got $100. from the place having the contest...really stupid set
of clues from an overall point of view (the idiot also made several mistakes).
Sandy is looking in earnest for a place to go back to school...police dept
really getting to her, however, I'm most likely going to stay around here for
the next year or two...interesting contest between too many options and not
wanting to do anything.   
Looks like both goodies I'm working on here may potentially end up in RLL/MRS.
Our hardware representation stuff is evolving into general VLSI design (I
think I mentioned that at some point previously)...most of the mechanisms
needed to do this are also common to all engineering design projects--
interesting to see what generalities could result...as I think I also mentioned
previously, one part of this looks just like a part of an automated
programming system or heuristic-based compiler...I'd like to get your 
opinions at some point on how you think the world should be organized.
The other stuff will probably be my masters thesis...a computational
framework for systemic grammars (the linguistic underpinnings of SHRDLU,
among other things, if you haven't seen anything on them). For the 
multi-paragraph English text generation stuff. End result will hopefully 
be nicely enough done that it can be turned on anything in the RLL system
(with appropriate concept-to-English expression mappings). Such grandiose
plans, sigh.
Steve.

∂Mailed to SKLEIN at USC-ISIB  18:13 9-March
... and you were about to give up ...
Steve -
Rejoice, rejoice, rejoice!  The MRS manual has gone to press, errors and
all.  All 35 pages will be mailed to you when it becomes available.

If you like I'll carry a copy thence 18-March.
I've a now-more-official-than-last-time-invitation to arrange to consult
at Rand, scheduled for 19-20 March.  Would you like to get together sometime
around then?

Russ

∂09-Mar-81  1822	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: ... and you were about to give up ...     

Truly amazing...if you brought down a copy I wouldn't complain.  Doing 
something/whatever sounds reasonable if it doesn't conflict with your (any)
plans.  I don't think I have any problems in that respect.  I'll check and
get back to you.
Steve.
-------

∂30-Mar-81  1831	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	..oops..   
Date: 30 Mar 1981 1830-PST
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: ..oops..
To: RDG at SU-AI

I seem to have misplaced the fact that you were coming this-a-way.  Oh, well...
how was you trip/consulting experience (assuming it occured)?  What's new
up your way...anyone you know poke holes in our "illustrious leader"? 
Steve.
-------

∂Mailed to SKEIN@USC-ISIB  14:30 31-Mar
Yak, Yak, Yak
The trip was good, if tiring.
The stuff at Rand looks financially rewarding, but not (yet) intellectually
stimulating.  I saw Fay and Bonnie whilst there, as well as 4/5 of my nuclear
family (yawn).

So how's by you?  You'll be overjoyed to know that at this very moment
(yes, right now!) your personal (almost autographed) 
copy of the MRS manual is meandering its way to your clutches --
really!
I was waiting for Mike to mail you a copy; and he assumed I was playing
postman.  Anyway, enjoy. (It's not all that interesting, but you'll find
that out soon enough...)
	Russ
∂06-Apr-81  1612	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Yak, Yak, Yak    

<<<< ∂Mailed to Steve (CC Mike)  11:14 8-Apr >>>>
Answers, such as they are
Hi.  Sorry about the delay.  I got the paper the day after your message.
Thanks.  It is rather sparse stuff.  Have any of you written down a "game plan"
of any sorts?  The following (for example) are of most interest:

*****
Game plan:  Mike has a vast list of things he hopes MRS will be able to do,
one day.  Included are such diverse elements as {fear, surprise, ruthless
efficient and an...} preservations of invariants, proliferation of demons,
graceful agenda-driven process-interruption and -resumption, ...  Ask him
for the full list. (He, of course, wouldn't give it to you, but you can
at least annoy him with another reasonable request...)
*****


  > The relation between RLL and MRS, both short and long term

*****
RLL vs MRS:  Currently these are two distinct systems, each sitting on the
same CORLL foundation.  That's the way tey'll stay in the short term; eventually
I/we hope to find some slave labor to incorporate RLL into MRS, by making
an RLL-initializing module, which can be plugged into MRS's core.  (Volunteers?..)

For what it's worth, some Xerox people (led by your hero and mine, Mark Stefik
[isn't it annoying how many mono-syllabic, quadra-epistle male moniker there
are -- and they (we?) all seem working on this silly set of projects. Any, back
to the plot:]) began with MRS, but grew dissatisfied; with its code itself,
as best I can tell.  So begot LRS (for Little Representation System; cutely
sandwhiched between Krs and Mrs, alphabetically.)  And so much for our maxim,
of halting the proliferation of similar but incompatible ...
*****

  > RLL/MRS's place in the structure of things at Stanford (support, interest,
       again long term expectations)

*****
Place in the sun: as long as either Lenat (hereafter DBL) or I am around there
will probably be continued interest in RLL;
ditto for MRG (an alias of Mike Genesereth) with respect to MRS.
As MRG has suckered slews of naive personel into using MRS, it will probably
even be supported for a while, whatever that means.  The Rand stuff will
keep me honest, wrt RLL.
DBL is currently EURISKOing in virgin LISP, by the way.  Eventually he hopes
to do the stuff in RLL, but thus far has found its time requirements too
stringent...
*****

  > Status of RLL examples (Hearsay-type, KLONE, etc.)--someone doing 
     something, waiting for volunteers, etc.

*****
<This answer is as sparse as the work done, except for meta-comments,
(and, of course, that last Meta-Meta-Comment [whoops, and that last
Meta-Meta-Meta-Comment {not to mention the preceding ....}]).>

I left the above part in to be cute - but actually I have found the need to
build up features of the Units package -- esp its inheritance (SPECS) relation,
of gradual refinement.
*****

  > Any urges to build general "real-world" type knowledge bases/rep-
     resentations (time {gak}, spatial location, events, general taxonomies)

*****
In EURISKO's eventualities, (or at least in DBL's conception of it,)
vast amounts of common sense will be available to this over system;
and this body of facts, heuristics, ... will grow daily, due to both 
input from various users, and EURISKO's introspective capabilities.

A paper I started to write an IJCAI paper a while back,
"spontaneously aborted" itself when it became apparent the poor
thing lacked anything which did more than resemble semantic content.
Its intend was to discuss EURISKO itself, and these issues, perhaps.
Anyway DBL and I may one day massage it into a reasonable shape.
If so I'll be able to suitable answer that question with a pointer to that
piece of paper.
*****

  > Mailing list / users group status

*****
I'm not sure what you want here.  Yes, there is a degenerate mailing list,
consisting of people I feel should get this sort of stuff, including you,
Tom, and Rick H-R.  Nobody from outside has contributed, yet.
*****

If you guys haven't formulated such "positions" yet, feel free to ignore.
We are finally getting down to a particular representation for the knowledge
delivery / text generation project (generally KLONE-like) and it would be
truly wasteful to generate another hack system (especially when a specific
goal is exportability).  Enjoy.
Steve.
-------

∂21-Apr-81  1732	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Sunshine and Light   
To: RDG at SU-AI

Somehow, MM asking (demanding) that I title everything is ridiculous (hmm...
I've never seen whether the Subject field goes away if blank...probably not).
Anywho, in the process of "selling" RLL to the powers-that-be the need that
emerges is for more toys to show.  What could I actually get my hands on
(*.exe, KB's, other unit descriptions, demos, random prose, ...), with what
restrictions?  We have an immediate need for something which shows handling of
events and event sequences (presumably the chemical spill type goodies, if
they still exist).  The gospel seems to be potent...no one has complained yet.
Have you written your anti-reagan letter for the day?
Steve.
-------

∂Mailed to SKLEIN  16:02 22-Apr
Thunderclods and Darkness
Hmm - to answer the easy question: yes, MM does NOT force you to en-subject
your messages.  Now for the hard stuff:

I'm elated the "word according to the prophet Steve" is so catchy.
I'm not quite sure how to go from here; what would best further RLL's cause.
The code still has bugs in it -- so what else is new?  
Its external appearance hasn't changed much
over the last n months -- unless you pull out your stop watch and observe
it cruising along at many times the speed it once had.
(That is, the amount of speed has increased; not the time spent for
a given task.)

My next step will further speed up the system -- making several functions
(like GetValue) macros; so the compiled code will be able to avoid dozens
of costly queries.
After that I'll code up a Units-like SPEC relation (gradual refinement),
which seems essential for a wide variety of tasks.  (Not only for the
SPILL stuff, but also for Rand's planner system; and from your description,
for your stuff as well.)

Let me ask this: does ISI have some (competent) manpower (well, person power)
which could be contributed towards the greater good of ...
There are a host of simple-ish chores which just take someone to sit
down and do it; and I've been unable to get any of the BS or MS students
sent my way up to speed.  Hence RLL's incompleteness.
And hence my reluctance to send a flawed copy ISI-bound.

Let me know.  Any messages for these parts -- eg to Tom, or ? ?
Did you know that Jon Nimitz is in India now?  
And what's this anti-Raygun stuff?  I mean, really, he's our president!
Mr Yankee-Doodle himself!  (Forgive me, I have to get in the spirit.
Rand's putting thru a security clearance on me now.)
Mom and Apple Pie!  My country 'tis of thee..

Russ
∂22-Apr-81  1701	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Thunderclods and Darkness       

Thunderclods only happen after bombing runs (to not witness would I like).
What is Nimitz doing in India?  Say hi to the world up there where appropriate
(when in doubt laze [for to refer to the instances of being lazy]).  Ignoring
your seekurity clearance aspirations for the moment (if they come by here will
I have stories to tell [rasp, rasp {as in the sound of dry hands colliding
torsion-wise}]) for what is a president except possibly someone to throw
mud-pies at?  Unfortunately, our cheap executive seems intent on not honoring
that tradition of silent clodhood, but insists on being a vocal clod (isn't
that poetic?).  By even suggesting otherwise (this is for rhetorical effect)
you are supporting the infidels (incidents of complaints concerning book
contents [censorship-wise] are up five-fold since January...).

Current status of things here (RLL) is that superiors consider it a good
tool from which to learn how to design OUR representations (aaaaargh!!!!).
The battle being fought is one of convincing that much time would be saved
by USING it in our plans rather than treating it as a model.  If that could
be accomplished, the three-to-five of us would (presumably) put time into
upgrading/fixing things as well as developing our own extensions (or trash,
depending on how things go...).  Consequently, the need is for AMMO to point
out that starting from scratch is a waste of time.   Anything I get from
you now need have no guaranteed status, but the directions in which things
have been extended (actions, control, "world"-knowledge) are important.
It's basically a selling situation with the other details to come later...
Steve.
-------

∂Mailed to SLKLEIN@ISIB 16:03 24-Apr
Answers, maybe...
Nimitz: Story, according to Bonnie, is: some broad juilted(sp) him, so
its off to the peace core (for want of a nearer French Foreign Legion).
SC: Nah, THEY wouldn't trouble you. Tom's on their list, but ...
RLL, and friends:  Well, the fact of the matter is RLL 'tain't yet
releasable; and even when it is I've got no real yen to maintain it.

In terms of Ammo (I kept trying to figure out what it was an acronym for...)
well, RLL does do Slots real good.  And soon will do general functions
as nicely.  What sort of demo would you like?
Would verbal contact be better than written?

Have you seriously considered MRS as a nucleus?  Why or why not?

	Russ

∂24-Apr-81  1631	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Answers, maybe...     

A nice subject title...if you make them general enough they are reusable
without indirection.

Our current view of "our" representation is based somewhat on KLONE...
intensional concepts vs. extensional individuals, roles with specifications
(for each role instance) of cardinality & value restrictions, one or more
inheritance mechanisms, etc., etc.....  It seems closer to the base state
of RLL than MRS.  If you don't see this as true, feel free to enlighten me.

Steve.
  
(Maintenance only exists if the assumption is that something is being
maintained)

-------

∂Mailed to SKLEIN  16:49 24-Apr
Idea:
Why don't you make up a list of things you want to represent, as well
as the sorts of inferencing/retrieval algorithm you need.
Send these (your tired, your huddled, your yearning masses ...
oops - you mean you're not from the security office? Never mind.)
over, and I'll try to cons up a RLL-ish encoding.  (I did this for
a set of some 20+ "facts" after the Expert Systems conference, which
I could mail you -- or have I done that already?)
The powers that be can likewise draw up their idealized KL1ish representations;
and then compare the results.

By the way, I do think your assessment of MRS is apt: it ain't got as many
goodies as RLL's got.  This is true both when comparing base states,
and sum total of available (respective) systems.

If you were to get RLL, how would I communicate fixes/updates/improvements
to you; and vice versa?  This is what I meant by maintenance.

	Ta-taa
Russ
∂24-Apr-81  2329	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Idea:       

I haven't seen the results of the Expert Systems conf...i'll read anything
(once).  The powers-that-be are laboring under the viewpoint that there is
nothing wrong with casting things in concrete as long as you have a vague
idea of what you want.  I'm arguing towards ABSOLUTE (nice to be firm)
generality since we need to represent such things as events & event sequences,
times & time intervals, hypothetical circumstances, not to mention several
funny control regimes (assuming everything fits together) and who knows what
else...

I could (and will) send you a sample of the "hand-waving" level of stuff we
now have, along with the pseudo-strange properties it has.  If I can be
convincing to everyone else at this level then it doesn't matter that any
future flexibility is achieved (that comes for free).  People here are
not sure that the RLL approach to things buys them anything ("excess
generality...we don't need any of that..." type comments).

wrt maintenance, that is a standard hairy area & depends upon whether such
goodies are flowing both directions or not.  At an initial level, there
presumably need be no effort on the part of you people beyond answering
questions (our responsibility to snarf most-recent versions, keep our changes
modular, etc.).  The first problem occurs if we do "contract" debugging (ala
your previous msg) and you would like to get the fixes back.  The final level
of involvement would try to integrate what we do with what you do which could
conceivably be worse than the interaction problems the KRL-types mentioned
(since here we are talking about two totally independent systems).  I don't
know what your thoughts are on reasonable levels of interaction and benefit to
your goals up there.  I don't suppose our munging on your machine would be
politically feasible...

Steve.
-------

Mailed p11 of REPORT[rdg,dbl] to SKLEIN 12:50 25-Apr-81
∂29-Apr-81  1042	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	for to collect facts...   
Date: 29 Apr 1981 1042-PDT
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: for to collect facts...
To: RDG at SU-AI

greets...may your happinesses be daylike, etc...
briefly, how much room is there in the units address space (pages,
max unit limit, whatever) plus how much of interlisps basic address space
is unallocated in a vanilla rll?  the question came up and i had not the
slightest idea...
steve.
-------

∂Mailed to SKLEIN 13:11 29-Apr
...stcaf tcelloc ot rof
That's the advantage of CORLL - you can have as many units as you want.
They get swapped in as needed, and swapped out as "core" space demands.

How much space is in "core" initially depends on the version of LISP.
On the Diraldo, who know? and who cares?  It's way more than I'll need.
There seems to be less space on SCORE's InterLISP than on Rand-Ai's --
which indicates the disparity amoungst InterLisp implementations.
(IE I can only deduce the two versions start out with different amounts 
of unallocated pages.)

The additional "source code" needed to run RLL (beyond CORLL)
is rather distributed:
There are two compiled files - containing general utility stuff
and RLL specific stuff -- of sizes 56 and 38 disk pages, respectively.
The rest is buried in amongst the units.

That answer your question?
	Russ
∂29-Apr-81  2241	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: ...stcaf tcelloc ot rof    

actually...no.  "as many units as you want" is a rather large claim (you 
might gather from this that i haven't seen the CORLL manual yet).  i bet
you can't make 10 million units, if for no other reason then you can't
have that many pointers in general...do you have a number (1k, 10k, ?)?

the other question is a direct one of if you do a STORAGE] how many free
pages there are, plus roughly how much disappears for each unit (unless
the unit index is paged too)...this all from the tops-20 interlisp point
of view.

Steve
-------

∂Mailed to KLEIN, (CC DE2)  11:17 30-Apr
Partial spec
Limitations will probably be Atom Name size -- as that will probably be
exhausted before the available disk storage is.  (CORLL allows units to
be stored on such "peripheral storage" place, rather than "in core".)

Anyway, I now have about a thousand units in use; and have had no problem.
Next time I start up RLL I'll execute the (STORAGE) command.

Russ
∂30-Apr-81  1734	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	what za chanze? 
Date: 30 Apr 1981 1734-PDT
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: what za chanze?
To: RDG at SU-AI

What is the chance (he asks nicely) that you could find a copy of the CORLL
manual to zing down this-a-way (or a pointer if online there)?  I be much in
your debt given the publication dept's record of achievement...
Steve.

Support National Security (pause) take an MX missile to dinner.
-------

∂Mailed to SKLEIN 15:45 1-May
(Whoooosh)
It's on its way.  To answer your question, there is an excellent
chance of finding that manual ...
∂12-May-81  1556	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	regrets or whatever  
Date: 12 May 1981 1520-PDT
From: Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB>
Subject: regrets or whatever
To: RDG at SU-AI

Hi.  Got your note (thanks for paper)...sorry I didn't call but Sandy's father
has been in for repairs so things have been a bit unusual...  Talk at you 
later.
Steve.
-------

∂Mailed to SKLEIN 11:46 15-May
Whatever, with or without regrets
No problem - as usual I was overly busy as well.  (Among other events
I saw "I Got my act together and am taking it on the road" in Hollywood,
with Bonnie.  It wasn't bad; but definately not worth the $. End review.)

Anyway, yes I got that challenge of things to represent; but have not had
the time to sit down and address it.  I hope to get to it by next week.

Anything else happening in parts south?  Hope Sandy's father's problems weren't
too severe; and that he's better...

Russ

∂15-May-81  1311	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	Re: Whatever, with or without regrets    

Only the normal wrinkles happening...what to do with my life, etc.  Any idea 
what you are going to do when you finish your degree?  Founding small companies
seems interesting but so does working for other people if interesting and pays
well (concession to real world...).  I think Barry and I are going to try
creating something to sell to see how that works...nearly everybody in the
Caltech CS dept is running around pursuing "outside interests".

Sandy's father had a lung tumor (benign) that they hacked out (take heed 
smokers of the world...your time will come) but he seems to be coming along
fine.

About time to discover the next place to live (they're selling this one out
from under us)...I hate it...

Steve.
-------

∂01-May-81  1745	Steve Klein <SKLEIN at USC-ISIB> 	A Test of Wizardry   

Well...you asked for it...a piece of representation to (potentially) be
encoded in RLL.  I hope this isn't too large.  Let me know if you find
anything obstructionist or ambiguous.

Have you read any of Levesque's stuff and what you think?  The article I've
seen is the one in Findler's Associative Networks book.

Steve.

-----------------------------------------------
Preconditions:

  Our general context is the task of text production. The following is meant 
as (part of) a representation of the following sentence:
  
  "Jane Doe has cancelled her appointment with us on Wednesday morning."

Conventions:

Things in ALL←CAPITALS are Generic or Individual Concept Names.
 Generic Concepts can have subclasses (specified by the SuperC notation).
 Generic Concepts can be individuated (specified by the Isa notation).
 Individual Concepts represent extensional instances and cannot be
   subclassified or individuated.
 Concepts can have multiple "parent" concepts.
Things below concepts are Role Specifications, which consist of
   a Role Name plus {(Restrictions)} plus a {Role Filler}        {} => optional

Concept Names     =>  strictly handles
Role Names        =>  again handles, but inheritable and (perhaps) renamable
                         (see the VISIT concept below for a rename instance)
Cardinality       =>  single value or <NUMERIC> range of the 
                         <NUMBER OF> role filler(s).
                         (also, we have been encoding optionality vs.
                          necessity as a lower  bound  of  0  or  non-0.
                          It is separable, but must be encoded somehow.)
ValueRestriction  =>  concept which the role filler must be eq to or 
                          descended from.
Role Filler       =>  some concept or set of concepts meeting the applicable 
                          restrictions.

Role specifications are inherited by subconcepts of this concept and their
  individuals, ad nauseum, with (some) deepest value taking precedence in 
  cases of conflict.  The deeper specifications must be more restrictive than
  their shallower (higher, more generic) ones.


***Generic Concepts***

OBLIGATION SuperC ("SomethingOrOther")
  Performer (Cardinality 1:n, ValueRestriction AGENCY)
  Beneficiary (Cardinality 1:n, ValueRestriction AGENCY)
  Event (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction ACTION)

APPOINTMENT SuperC (OBLIGATION)
  Event (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction VISIT)

ACTION SuperC ("SomethingOrOther")
  Time (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction TIME←INTERVAL)
  Actor (Cardinality 1:n, ValueRestriction AGENCY)

VISIT SuperC (ACTION)
  Visitee (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction LOCABLE←OBJECT)
  Visitor (= Actor)

TIME←INTERVAL SuperC ("SomethingOrOther")                       |
  BeginTime (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction TIME←MOMENT)       |  lotsa fur.
  EndTime (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction TIME←MOMENT)         | 

PERSON SuperC (AGENCY)
  Sex (Cardinality 1, ValueRestriction SEX)

SEX SuperC ("SomethingOrOther")
  

***Individual Concepts***

APPOINTMENT#1 Isa (APPOINTMENT)
  Performer JANE←DOE#1
  Beneficiary ISI
  Event EVENT#1

VISIT#1 Isa (VISIT)
  Time WEDNESDAY←MORNING#1
  Actor JANE←DOE#1

WEDNESDAY←MORNING#1 Isa (TIME←INTERVAL)

JANE←DOE#1 Isa (PERSON)
  Sex FEMALE

FEMALE Isa (SEX)

MALE Isa (SEX)

ISI Isa (AGENCY)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Unanswered questions:

The above is a single hierarchy...will this suffice 

Where to place inter-role constraints.

What to do with hypotheticality  (VISIT#1  above  should  be  a
hypothetical visit <IN THE TIME←INTERVAL "FUTURE">)

Is something lost by role names having  significance  only  for
inheritance

How to support  manipulating  times,  events,  objects  without
diverse hairy access methods

THE REPRESENTATION HAS TO PROVIDE FOR SEVERAL SETS  OF  STATUS
MARKS ON THE WHOLE COLLECTION.  ALL OF THESE KINDS ARE FOUND ON
BOTH CONCEPTS AND ROLES.

 .  ONE  SET  REPRESENTS  READER'S KNOWLEDGE OF EXISTENCE:  IT
    CHANGES INFREQUENTLY AND IS BACKWARDS INHERITED.

 .  ONE  SET REPRESENTS READER'S CURRENT ATTENTION.  IT IS NOT
    INHERITED.

 .  ONE  SET  REPRESENTS  WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CONVERTED INTO
    TEXT BY THE SYSTEM.  IT IS NOT INHERITED.>

-------

∂To SKLEIN@ISIB (18:11 20-May)
At long last, the ANSWERS!!!  (well, more or less...)
First, my standard meta-comment (I know, I know: that last statement, my
first "real" statement, was really meta-meta-.  Anyway,) Rumor has it that
Levesque is heading for Fairchild here in PA, to join Ron Brachman.

Anyway, the above looks amazingly KL-ONEish; and none of it seems even
difficult.  The fact that RLL's document implies a disdain for SuperC type
of operators doesn't mean that users can't simply use the existing
SuperSet slot to provide that function.  Simply indicating that the
various slots you want inherited are inheritable/specializable seems to
address the final issue.  (IE the mechanism for value restriction is all
set up.)  Basically the only major change you'd have to made would be
lexical; and using Typicalx to store the defaulted values, over Anyx.
(That is, if you wanted to use RLL as it stands now.  Of course you would
be amply welcome to modify (your copy of) the units to correspond to
precisely what you wanted.

Things like storing the cardinality of a "slot" is easy to do in RLL -- it
is stored on the unit which representing that slot (as part of the range
specification).  In fact, it can be automatically deduced from the
definition of the slot, in many cases.  One more plug -- RLL currently
"knows" about sets, lists and bags (as well as singletons), and permits
you to declare the value of a slot to be any of these data-structures.
Then, when you add on new values, RLL determines, for example, whether the
order of this new insertion makes any difference, or if duplicated entries
are permissible.  One may also use the FListN data-structure to specify
the value of some slot to be a list of elements of (possibly) different
types -- eg (FListN UnitType NumberType (FSet BooleanType)) means the
legal values for this slot will be lists of three elements -- where the
first is a unit, the second a number, and the third is a list of booleans.
(The knowledge the knowledge about the datatypes is, of course, stored in
UnitType, NumberType and BooleanType.  Let me know if you want more
details about the how this knowledge is stored, or used.  Or more about
the way RangeTypes are used...  Note finally that this same formalism is
being used to describe arbitrary functions -- not just slots...)

There are many ways of referring to a collection of units.  One is to
regard them all as members of class in your hierarchy.  (As any unit can
have many parents it may, therefore, belong to several groups -- eg
Reader's Current Attention, as well as its current position in the
organization of the world.)

For this particular example I would not advice that method.  First, what
that set of entities have in common is really a meta-relation -- ie its
not John in the Reader's current attention, but the John unit ...
(Assuming I understood your example.)  Anyway, there is nothing which
prevents you from defining a RCA units, and a CollectionOfUnits slots,
such that the value of RCA:CollectionOfUnits is just that set of units.

------ As I didn't get a sense of what, exactly, I was supposed to answer,
the above ramblings were just things your example above triggered; and,
undoubtedly didn't answer the questions you had.  Do feel free to ask
again, and to constrain my meandering by including more precise inquiries.

Nothing new to report from PA.  And there?

Russ